Title: Viral Intrigues: Decoding Brain Mysteries with Dr. Jay Lombard
Host: Dr. Nicole Rivera & Dr. Nick Carruthers
Guest: Dr. Jay Lombard
Dr. Nicole (00:01.21)
Hello, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of Integrated View Radio. And we're all already laughing because we pretty much already started the podcast and then now we're pressing record. So here we are. But we have an amazing guest that I am very, very excited to introduce. And of course, we also have Dr. Nick here with me. Maybe Dr. Nick will get to talk. I don't know. We'll see. But we have...
Dr. Nick (00:25.91)
Jay Lombard (00:26.733)
I hope it's a little bit of a different thing. Otherwise, it's gonna be a very boring podcast, trust me.
Dr. Nick (00:30.931)
Dr. Nicole (00:32.834)
We have Dr. Jay Lombard and we were introduced, has it been maybe almost a year ago now? And I was very, very fortunate to be working with an individual that I was able to collaborate with Dr. Lombard and get exposed to all of his amazing brilliance when it comes to neurology and neurodegenerative conditions. So I really want him to lead with...
a little bit more about himself because he's, you know, technically quote unquote, I'm doing air quotes for those of you that are listening and not watching, a neurologist for 30 years, but he's really evolved that into something really special. And I would love for you to share a little bit more about what you were saying before I pressed record.
Jay Lombard (01:22.537)
Okay, great. So after I finished my residency in neurology, which was, I think in 1995, I somehow was on the front end of the autism pandemic, which what it really was at that point, because during my, during my residency, I didn't see a single patient with autism, not one. And the year, my first year as an attending,
I saw probably 300 cases in the first year of my practice. First year. So I did a lot of work with developmental delay, children, autism, Asperger's. And what I found is that there was significant overlap between a psychiatric diagnosis in their parents, autoimmune disease in their parents.
and a very strong history of gut dysbiosis, where in the first kids that we saw, we actually were able to culture clostridium infection in those children. And this is before anybody talked about the brain-gut connection or the brain-immune connection. We were just overwhelmed with these patients and trying to figure out what was wrong with them. And the persistent complaint they had was diarrhea. I kind of got bored
Dr. Nicole (02:31.086)
in those children. This is before anybody talked about the brain, gut connection or the immune connection. We were just overwhelmed with these patients and trying to figure out what's wrong with them and the persistent complaint they had with diarrhea. I kind of got bored with that area, which is a little bit of 80 day, and decided to redirect my focus for neurodegenerative disease.
Jay Lombard (02:50.049)
with that area because I have a little bit of ADD and decided to redirect my focus for neurodegenerative diseases, which I began seeing many, many patients with ALS and Parkinson's disease to the point where I became so disenfranchised with neurology that I took a probably an eight-year hiatus.
Dr. Nicole (02:59.502)
I began seeing many, many patients with ALS and Parkinson's disease to the point where I became so disenfranchised with neurology that I took a probably eight-year hiatus, thinking I was smart and building a biotech company, which I did for eight years.
Jay Lombard (03:17.361)
thinking I was smart and building a biotech company, which I did for eight years, kind of in a way of my thoughts were that if I could teach what I do, I wouldn't have to work anymore. But that didn't go well, ended up going back into practice in 2018. And I began seeing a series of ALS patients.
Dr. Nicole (03:27.078)
I was kind of in a way of my thoughts were that if I could teach what I do, I wouldn't have to work in it. But that didn't go well.
Dr. Nicole (03:42.726)
And I began seeing a series of ALS patients. This was without any marketing, because I was a very popular physician in New York back in the early 2000s, up until 2010. I basically became invisible after that point. I was like, okay, what do I do? Hang up a shingle and see what happens. And the first ALS patients I began seeing,
Jay Lombard (03:47.693)
And this was without any marketing, because I was a very popular physician in New York back in the early 2000s up until 2010. And I basically became invisible after that point. So I was like, OK, what do I do? Hang up a shingle and see what happens. And the first ALS patients I began seeing all had intractable reflux and or debilitating constipation.
Dr. Nicole (04:09.502)
all had intractable reflux and or debilitating constipation. So I started thinking, OK, this is very similar to the history of patients I'd seen with autism. You know, what's wrong?
Jay Lombard (04:18.181)
So I started thinking, okay, this is very similar to the history of patients I had seen with autism. What's really going on here? So I began doing stool analysis and like other doctors that do stool analysis tests, found things that were interesting, but also I think many ways distracting. And what I mean by that is that the development of all these probiotics and oh, this is the best probiotic.
Dr. Nicole (04:34.246)
you know, found things that were interesting, but also, I think, many ways distracting. What I mean by that is that, you know, the development of, you know, all these probiotics and, oh, this is the best probiotic, this is, you know, the real way of treating dysbiosis. I also thought it became a departure from our understanding about what we were seeing and what it actually meant.
Jay Lombard (04:48.061)
this is the real way of treating dysbiosis. I also thought it became a departure from our understanding about what we were seeing and what it actually meant. And in conclusion to that, what we were discussing before you didn't hit record, Nicole, was that my conclusion about
Dr. Nicole (05:03.218)
And in conclusion to that, what are you discussing for, we didn't hit the coordinate call. Ha ha ha!
Jay Lombard (05:15.649)
a vast number of neurological diseases, everything from autism, uh, to Alzheimer's, to ALS, uh, are dimensionally similar in regards to their pathology, although they're categorically distinct, uh, in terms of their synthetology. And I think because of that, uh, distinction, we are now treating diseases categorically, uh, as opposed to dimensionally.
Dr. Nicole (05:21.73)
ALS are dimensionally similar in regards to their pathology, although they're categorically distinct in terms of their symptomatology. I think because of that distinction, we are now treating diseases categorically as opposed to dimensionally. Yeah. To go off of where you're going.
Dr. Nick (05:46.742)
Yeah, like to go off of what you're talking about, you know, you went more into the dimension aspect with us. So really Dr. Lombardo was talking about how, you know, we tend to diagnose based on specifics. But then if we take a step back, we can actually, instead of just looking the difference, we can also look at what's similar with all these different types of diseases. You know, we have glial cell over activation and a lot of them. And with the glial cells, it's just, you could think of it as the lymphatic.
a portion of your brain. It's your glymphatic cause it's glial cells, but you could think of it. It's like the detox center for your brain that's overactive due to some type of toxin, some type of infection, things like that.
Jay Lombard (06:27.841)
It actually, it's actually interesting. It's not overactive. In fact, it's the opposite. So the glymphatic system, which I'm glad you brought up because that's part of my research right now, is understanding the glymphatic system, is like you said, a lymphatic system of the brain that's coupled to glial cells, which are the cells that actually promote inflammation or lack thereof. So the glial cells recognize basically misfolded proteins.
And those misfolded proteins have to be transported to the glymphatic system. And think of the glymphatic system as a cesspool, okay, where the brain is bathed in the spinal fluid, that the glymphatic system is responsible to release all these bad proteins that are blocking up the system, that they can circulate through the spinal fluid and then be degraded. And what happens in aging, particularly,
and particularly in patients who have chronic sleep disorders. Because I find that the biggest, single most risk factor for any neurological disease, whether it's Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, ALS, MS, epilepsy, go down the list, is disruption in the sleep architecture. And why is that important? Because the sleep architecture is what primarily primes the glymphatic system.
Dr. Nicole (07:41.48)
ALS, MS, epilepsy go down the list, is disruption in sleep architecture. And why is that important? Because sleep architecture is what primarily finds the lymphatic system. Melatonin. When people go into a fall, a N3 or deep REM sleep. So yes, the lymphatic system, Greg, you put that up, Nick, because I think that's a very important point to discuss today. I have so many questions.
Jay Lombard (07:55.969)
And it primes it when people go into what's called a N3 or deep REM sleep. So yes, the glomphatic system. I'm glad you brought that up, Nick, because I think that's a very important point to discuss today.
Dr. Nick (08:07.618)
Well, and what you're talking about, the misfolded proteins just being prions, which is interesting with prions is that there's, how do I wanna explain it? There's infectious prions and there's non-infectious prions. And what's cool is, I'm making.
Jay Lombard (08:23.909)
That's a misnomer, by the way. So there, yeah. And I'll tell you why.
Dr. Nicole (08:26.851)
That's a misnomer by the way. Oh really? Yeah. It's interesting because I want to say one thing and then I want you to see it.
Dr. Nick (08:28.906)
Oh, really? Because so
What's interesting because yeah. So I want to say, I want to say one thing, and then I want you to prove me wrong. Um, I'm, I'm big at looking at when you talked about dimensions, I'm big at looking at everything through, um, geometry through the mathematics of geometry and the shapes of energy. So when you look at, when they say a non-infectious, um, it's actually in that spherical aspect, and then when you get into the infectious, it's the, the cube.
Dr. Nicole (08:43.94)
I'm big at looking at everything.
Jay Lombard (08:49.837)
Dr. Nicole (08:50.767)
Yes. So when you look at, when they say a non-infectious, it's actually in that spherical aspect. And then when you get into the infectious, it's the acute.
Dr. Nick (09:02.863)
Um, and that all has different energies behind it through the display. But if you say that's not real, I'm interested in saying and learning about that.
Jay Lombard (09:11.547)
I'm so glad to have this conversation with you, Nick, because I knew nothing other about you from Nicole other than that you're a great therapist. I didn't realize how deep your brain actually works. So here's...
Dr. Nick (09:24.707)
I'm gonna go to bed.
Dr. Nicole (09:26.124)
Oh, you don't even know.
Dr. Nick (09:27.958)
I don't have many friends. Ha ha ha.
Jay Lombard (09:30.713)
But you may not get a question in here, by the way. I'm just realizing this may go fairly deep before you get to ask your question. So let me explain why it's not a binary thing because when people say infectious prions versus non-infectious prions, they're making an artificial distinction. And let me tell you what that artificial distinction actually is. All life. Wow, that's got an echo here to show you what hyperbole are about to say.
Dr. Nick (09:33.634)
Dr. Nicole (09:37.83)
I'm gonna sit back.
Dr. Nicole (09:55.91)
I just got an echo here to show you what's going on.
Jay Lombard (10:00.145)
comes from comes from retrotransposons, which were the first forms of life. And they were pure RNA, no DNA in them whatsoever. Retrotransposons are genomic parasites, which means they're able to infect everything, including viruses. We all have retrotransposons in our bodies. So the idea that the infection's exogenous to us
Dr. Nicole (10:25.613)
So the idea that the infection is exogenous.
Jay Lombard (10:31.785)
is also misnomer because we contain a significant percentage of the viral, even the viral genome in the human genome. And that problem is what causes autoimmune disease because when the body sees something that it's not clear if it's infectious or non-infectious, for what you're describing, creates significant elevations of cytokines and pro-inflammatory cytokines,
Dr. Nick (10:41.357)
Dr. Nicole (10:42.688)
Jay Lombard (11:00.141)
which are the first phase of a neurological disease. And what happens over time is that the immune system becomes fatigued. So most patients that I see are actually immunosensit. They don't have active immune systems, they have actually underactive immune systems. And I'll let Nicole ask her question.
Dr. Nicole (11:10.534)
Most patients right here are actually immunogenescent, but they're not, they don't have active immunosuppressants, they have actually under-acid immunosuppressants. Now let me pull up. Now there's more questions that I have. So, okay, so what you're talking about here with these retrotransposons, can you explain to me the correlation then to retroviruses, and are you saying that, because retroviruses are endogenous?
and it's the imbalance, the activation of these retroviruses that is then creating the misfolded endogenous proteins, which is then affecting the neurological system.
Jay Lombard (11:48.281)
And let me tell you how they do that. So it's very interesting. I tell you something, I, you know, I am sort of an autodidactic virologist, meaning that I've taught myself everything there is to know. And there's a lot more to know. So that's like, you know, in terms of virology, we know what we know, we know what we don't know, but we don't know what we don't know. And that's, that's been sort of
Dr. Nicole (11:50.358)
Yes, that's what I want to know.
Jay Lombard (12:14.337)
my deep understanding of virology. So here's what viruses do. They're really very, very clever. They actually infect, we think of most viruses either being DNA viruses or RNA viruses, but ultimately all of the pathologies produced through the viral portion of the viral genome. And what they do is they literally hijack
post-RNA metabolism. It's like they're hijacking the plane and they're saying, you know what, we're no longer going to be able to produce, you know, guess what, you know, we're going to basically cut off the head of the host nucleus so it's unable to respond to the infection as a way of taking over the body. I mean, they're really like just the most evil, you know, things on the planet.
Dr. Nicole (12:48.222)
They're hijacking the plane. They're saying, you know what, we're no longer going to be able to produce, you know, guess what? We're going to basically cut off the head of the host nucleus so it's unable to respond to the infection as a way of taking over the body. I mean, they're really just the most evil things on the planet.
Jay Lombard (13:13.941)
on the planet. So that's kind of what they do. Once they control our RNA metabolism, it's very hard to push back, you know, therapeutically and even our understanding about what to do next.
Dr. Nicole (13:15.034)
So that's kind of what they do. Once they control our audience, they have a very hard to push back. You know, charitably, we need to talk about what's going on. So I'm gonna go there. Go ahead, Nick, because I'm gonna go there after. Ugh.
Dr. Nick (13:28.162)
So speaking about the dimensions and since hold on really quick, we, we got it. We got, we got, we have to alternate. We get it. We get to alternate. I'm always right. I'm always looking at the body through at first the psychosomatic because. From my understanding, the flow of energy is going from like, we think body mind spirit, but energy flows above down inside out. So it's going from the spirit to the mind, to the body, and then.
Jay Lombard (13:31.505)
Jay Lombard (13:39.412)
I don't think we're doing any barrel castling here, I hope.
Jay Lombard (13:55.377)
Dr. Nick (13:56.35)
energies, you know, bi-directional. So we have, of course, the environmental stress coming back in to, you know, show us how well we're putting ourselves into an environment, but with the psychosomatic, have you found, cause I ha I mean, nothing's black and white. Like you said, the binary is not really, you know, true, especially when we get to the quantum realm, but it seems like there's a lot of, uh, viruses that tend to show up in specific areas of the body. So like psychosomatic.
You know, you're having an emotional imbalance and that's that imbalance is going to be stored in specific areas, specific organs, different tissues in the body. So like H S V six, H S V seven, it tends to be more neurological shows up. Tends to be more in the brain. H S V one, of course the mouth, but the neck can go up to the brain. Sinuses.
Jay Lombard (14:45.931)
Do you guys know why that's the case?
Dr. Nick (14:50.194)
why they're all showing up in different places or
Jay Lombard (14:54.349)
No, why are these viruses particularly producing psychiatric and neurological symptoms?
Dr. Nicole (15:01.726)
We want to hear from you!
Dr. Nick (15:01.846)
I'm not a hundred percent. Yeah.
Jay Lombard (15:05.167)
Very simple answer. They're neurotrophic viruses. They hunt the brain. That's why people that have these conditions develop neurological and psychiatric symptoms because they're affecting our nervous system.
Dr. Nicole (15:13.372)
Dr. Nick (15:24.642)
So they're just pretty much, the virus is classified like there's respiratory viruses, there's neurotropic viruses. Does that make sense?
Jay Lombard (15:32.145)
So again, so when, you know, what people don't realize is that RSV is a neurotrophic virus. COVID is also a neurotrophic virus. And the way they get that designation is based upon the what's called the pleiotrophic preferences. Love these viruses. These viruses like infecting neurons.
Dr. Nicole (15:56.462)
like, that's the reason I like to get a whole group supply of glucose. But do you feel like there are certain viruses that can prey on all different types of tissue and that really comes back to vulnerable tissue because that tissue is already
Jay Lombard (15:59.481)
And the reason they like infecting neurons is because they get a whole food supply because the brain is the most enriched supply per tissue of glucose. So like, you know, where are we going to eat? You know? So, uh,
Jay Lombard (16:28.749)
Fantastic question. So what prevents the permeability of viruses is the endothelial layer of the blood system. It's not just the brain, it's also your kidneys, your lungs.
Dr. Nicole (16:37.728)
Dr. Nicole (16:41.046)
which is unfortunately damaged in most people.
Jay Lombard (16:45.629)
Exactly. So, you know, looking at glycocalyx as a rebuilding strategy can potentially help reduce the ability of these viruses to migrate because they migrate through the vascular system. That's why very often you see patients that have, you know, evidence of microvascular disease on their, you know, Ray Nutt's phenomena, for instance.
Dr. Nicole (17:07.462)
Jay Lombard (17:11.657)
and all sorts of other peripheral symptoms related to their neurological symptoms. So of course these viruses, you know, they're, they are, they don't like borders put it that way. You know?
Dr. Nicole (17:12.566)
of other peripheral symptoms relates to neurolateral symptoms. So of course, these viruses, they don't like borders. Put it that way. Yeah.
Dr. Nicole (17:26.782)
So I have a question related to COVID. There has been different embalmers that have been coming forward in relation to proteins that they're finding in the in actually the arterial system. And I'm just curious going, you know, thinking about that specific virus and what it's because it's all somewhat unknown because
it's all so new and they're seeing all of these different things. And I was curious if you had any insight around what that is doing from a misfolded protein's perspective.
Jay Lombard (18:08.001)
Right. Maybe let's start by talking about misfolded proteins because I'm not sure if the audience understands that terminology, but if they do, then... So, misfolded proteins, the best analogy for misfolded proteins is to think about basketballs that have no air in them, meaning that you're not able to bounce the basketball.
Dr. Nicole (18:19.042)
Yeah, of course.
Jay Lombard (18:34.113)
So what happens in neurological diseases is that not only is there deflation of these basketballs, there's also an inability to remove them once they're formed. So the two challenges in medicine are how do you prevent protein misfolding, and how do you remove the proteins already misfolded?
Dr. Nicole (18:58.502)
because they're not something that can be killed. They're not, you know, a live organism. So that's another factor. Some people think, oh, I'm gonna take a bunch of different herbal agents and be able to eradicate this, and it's just not how it works.
Jay Lombard (19:04.689)
Jay Lombard (19:10.074)
Dr. Nick (19:13.118)
Well, and that's why sleeps such a big issue because when you sleep and you have that deep REM sleep, you also have the highest amounts of what melatonin going through the body to be able to help detox.
Jay Lombard (19:13.318)
And it likes to know.
Jay Lombard (19:23.269)
Dr. Nicole (19:28.11)
So when I, go ahead.
Dr. Nick (19:28.276)
Dr. Nick (19:32.03)
I was just thinking, and I haven't actually shared this, even talked to you about it yet. Nicole. Um, it just kind of sparked a thought when you said this. Well, with those e-blamers, um, and I don't know if it's because of, it's just after the fact based on time, but it seems like a lot of those clots, um, which sometimes look like parasites sometimes look like actual blood clots. It's hard to tell exactly without being there and doing it. Um, and I don't.
Dr. Nicole (19:38.019)
That should be good.
Dr. Nick (19:59.63)
No, exactly enough. And that's why I wanted to ask you, Jay, do you know much about like neuro melanin being in the blood?
Jay Lombard (20:07.437)
No, I never heard that before.
Dr. Nick (20:09.554)
So I just read it like two weeks ago and I haven't had a chance to do any research on it yet. So that's why I was interested. But I guess it creates like a kind of like a black clotting factor. But I guess I'll do some research on that.
Dr. Nicole (20:30.146)
So do you find that one of the common themes in neurodegenerative diseases is viruses and these misfolded proteins?
Jay Lombard (20:41.029)
Right. Yep. And let me think.
Dr. Nicole (20:42.506)
And my other question around this is you, go ahead.
Jay Lombard (20:48.097)
Yeah, let me try to explain that in a deeper way. What happens is that there are proteins in the human body that are called intrinsically disordered proteins, or IDPs. These proteins are highly unstable proteins. Mean that they're unstable for a good reason, not a bad reason, because they're adaptive proteins. And the way that they're adaptive is by changing what's called the phosphorylation
status of those proteins. So think of a fan that's oscillating, and the oscillation occurs by the presence or absence of these light molecules, PO4, phosphate. What viruses do is they basically put a brake on those proteins. And that's true for virtually every protein that had been associated with ALS in particular, but also in Parkinson's disease.
That's where the defect is. So the virus is like, look, you know what? You depend upon the adequate function of these fans, which are basically microtubules in the cell. Let's just, you know, let's just cut the energy off.
Dr. Nicole (21:48.046)
on the adequate function of these fans, which are basically microtubules in the cell, let's just, you know, let's just cut the energy off. Interesting.
Dr. Nick (21:59.662)
So that's probably, I mean, when you think about, um, you know, we've talked about a little bit of how everything goes wrong. One of the first initial steps is just getting the body energy. So it can actually utilize the ability to a detox, but also to have the aspect to regenerate and repair.
Jay Lombard (22:18.805)
Exactly. Yep. And you know what I discovered about that? It's very interesting because I was one of the early adapters of photobiomodulation therapy. And I had a case of a adolescent that was misdiagnosed with bipolar for several years, who ended up having a diagnosis of something called Klein-Levin syndrome. Klein-Levin syndrome is due to antibodies to the
Jay Lombard (22:47.481)
viral infections. And it presents with highly moody kids. Now, people who have adolescents don't all think that they have Klein-Levin syndrome. It's a relatively rare syndrome, but it's characterized by like three or four or five or even a week or two of sleep. Like they get up only for maybe an hour or two hours going forward. Okay. And the...
Dr. Nicole (22:48.508)
and it presents with highly moody kids. Now, people who have adolescents don't all think that they don't have the Levene syndrome, it's a relatively rare syndrome, but it's characterized by like three or four or five or even a week or two of sleep. Like they get up only for maybe an hour or two hours going forward. Okay?
Jay Lombard (23:15.925)
abnormality in these patients then leads to a cyclical problem where they're awake, hypomanic, and have virtually no memory or no concern about the two or three week period that they were in this kind of stupor. And when they're in the stupor, they literally is it, and this is on looking at EEG studies. This is not just, you know, imagination. They're in a semi-dream state. So like, they're like an awakening sleep state.
Dr. Nicole (23:20.666)
then leads to a cyclical problem where they're awake, hypomanic, and have virtually no memory or no concern about the two or three period that they were in this kind of stupor. And when they're in the stupor, they literally, and this is on looking at EEG studies. This is not just imagination. They're in a semi-dream state. So like, you're like in a waking sleep state. It's called Klein-Lageen syndrome. So.
Jay Lombard (23:45.565)
it's called Klein-Levine syndrome. So because I have a reputation of being sort of the Sherlock Holmes of medicine, I got a referral from one of the sleep specialists at Stanford who's treating this kid. And I'm like, okay, well, you know, why not try something because nothing is working for them. So I put them on a program where I gave near-infrared light through the nasal areas.
Dr. Nicole (23:49.466)
Because I have a reputation being sort of Sherlock Holmes of medicine, I got a referral from one of the sleep specialists at Stanford who was treating this kid. And I'm like, okay, well, why not try something because nothing is working for them. So I put them on a program where I gave near-infrared light through the nasal areas, through something called B-light.
Jay Lombard (24:14.801)
through something called V-Lite, which is a commercial company that delivers certain levels of light into the nasal septum. And the reason why I like that more than I like these larger helmets is because you're getting light directly into the hypothalamus through the olfactory bulb. So it's like a direct source of light. And I told them that I want you to drink very high concentrate wheatgrass.
Dr. Nicole (24:19.898)
certain levels of light into the nasal septum. And the reason why I like that more than I like these larger helmets is because you're getting light directly into the hypothalamus through the olfactory bulbs. It's like a direct source of light. And I told them that I want you to drink very high concentrate wheatgrass.
Jay Lombard (24:46.685)
and forgot like, you know, intense amount of blueberries crushed up, raspberries crushed up into like just a puree of these things and take it an hour and a half before you actually go under this treatment. And the parents were these very anxious people from New Jersey, not that people from New Jersey have a high level of anxiety, but they were from New Jersey, no level of anxiety.
Dr. Nicole (24:46.958)
And we got a huge amount of blueberries crushed up. They're very crushed up into the puree of these things. And take it an hour and a half before you actually go and go to the hospital. And the parents will be very anxious to go to New Jersey. Not that they can go to New Jersey, I love New Jersey better. And they were very nervous because they
Dr. Nick (25:10.554)
Jay Lombard (25:14.033)
And they were very nervous because the kid had gone through so many different types of treatments that none of them work. They're like, I go, look, the worst is going to happen is nothing's going to happen. But I'll give you my cell phone number just in case you have any concerns. And she called me on the weekend and I'm like, oh, my God, like, you know, I just yes, I'm like, you know, do I pick up this call? I go. I.
Dr. Nicole (25:16.614)
that you could have gone through so many different types of treatments that none of them work, you're like, I go, look, the worst that's going to happen is nothing's going to happen. I'll give you myself a number just in case you have any concerns.
Dr. Nicole (25:37.198)
Here we go.
Jay Lombard (25:42.769)
I promised her I would, so I pick up the call and she goes, my God, Dr. J. She goes, my son is back. I go, what do you mean he's back? Like, that's impossible. It's like only three days that you took this program. He had completely restored his circadian rhythms after three days. So, if you ask about, you know, how to...
Dr. Nicole (25:50.419)
I go, what do you mean he's back? That's impossible. It's only three days that you took his program. He had completely restored his circadian rhythms after three days. That's amazing. So if you asked about...
Jay Lombard (26:08.495)
My philosophy is that there's an AM approach and a PM approach, which are entirely different.
Dr. Nicole (26:09.062)
that there's an AM approach and a PM approach which are entirely different. Yeah, I find it interesting that some, I was just gonna say, sometimes it's going more basic. I think a lot of times we think in medicine it has to be this really elaborate treatment in order to resolve these symptoms and sometimes it's something as
Jay Lombard (26:17.341)
My AM approach is just.
Dr. Nicole (26:37.77)
let's flood your body with a lot of antioxidants and, and light therapy, which is something that's very underrated.
Jay Lombard (26:48.869)
Dr. Nick (26:51.062)
Well, I mean, it's underrated perceptionally, but we're electric magnetic beans. So when you think of energy, we can communicate that way. We can communicate through electromagnetic means, um, whether it's through, you know, light low-level laser, PMF devices, scalar energy, um, the bodies, you know, we have literally like little Tesla engines inside of us. Um, so we can use all those different forms to be able to, um, pretty much create.
almost like a magnet and to create that flow of, of energy, of the positive and negative ions and that kind of like a battery can help to recharge itself.
Jay Lombard (27:33.77)
And you, yes, that's exactly right.
Dr. Nicole (27:38.426)
So I want to hear about your research. I'm sure we've covered bits and pieces of it thus far in the conversation, but with all of the work that you've been doing on neurodegenerative conditions, ALS in particular, what is the standout thing that you feel like is, what no one is talking about number one and number two is really one of the game changers that's really helping to create
more thorough healing for these individuals.
Jay Lombard (28:13.177)
Beautiful question. What I found, and this I think Nick, basically going back to your comment before Nicole's question, is what happens when we diagnose a person with ALS or Parkinson's disease, we put them into a state of PTSD, which they're already in given the fact that they know something's wrong with their body, but then we put the icing on the cake by saying...
You know what? I agree with Dr. So-and-so's opinion. You know, you have ALS. Just that mention of that produces such a significant, deep psychological trauma. And that also particularly occurs in patients who have head injury, who automatically have PTSD. Every person with a head injury has to have PTSD because who would not be concerned about getting hit in the head?
by a sledgehammer or if you're an NFL player by being tackled. So the idea that PTSD and TBI are separate entities is another mistake that's categorical, not dimensional. Because dimensionally, they're the same. So what happens from a existential level or a spiritual level or an energetic level, whatever way you want to try to describe it, is
the brain goes into what's called a self-apoptosis process, meaning it's not going to believe it's alive. It means that it's lost all hope. It means that it's better to check out either, you know, like, in a self-inflicted way, God forbid, or just checking out existentially. And that creates a cascade.
Dr. Nicole (29:40.27)
The brain goes into what's called a self-apoptosis process. Meaning it's not gonna believe it's alive. It means that it's lost all hope. It means that it's better to check out either, you know, like self-inflicted way doctor did or just checking out.
existential and that creates a cascade of negative signals that are received by every cell in the body that look my life is no longer worth living for. So one of the first things I found about my patients who had
Jay Lombard (30:08.321)
of negative signals that are received by every cell in the body that, look, my life is no longer, you know, living, worth living for. So one of the first things I found about my patients who've had, uh, success dealing with Parkinson's and ALS. And I have, I, and the good news is I've had very significant, uh, and I won't say I've cured any patients. I think cure is a very, very slippery slope word, but I've been able to feel it that
Dr. Nicole (30:25.714)
And the good news is I've had very significant, and I won't say I cured any patients, I think cure is a very, very slippery slope word, but I've been able to feel it that I've been able to adequately stabilize patients with these conditions. And the first way you stabilize them is through sort of re-centralizing them to the point that they have purpose and that there is hope.
Jay Lombard (30:37.669)
I've been able to adequately stabilize patients with these conditions. And the first way you stabilize them is through sort of re-centralizing them to the point that they have purpose and that there is hope.
Dr. Nick (30:53.182)
A hundred percent. Every, every single neurodegenerative case I've had, it's the first thing we focus on is self-depreciation. You know, there's more breakdown than build-up, you know, and that's, when you think about it, simply put, it's like, that's creating the break of the communication through the cell signaling, through the neurological signaling. So it's like, we have to get that back into a state of equanimity, state of balance, and that stress from the mind can actually allow the body, you know, that.
Jay Lombard (31:01.453)
Dr. Nicole (31:05.201)
I think about it, but that's creating the break.
Jay Lombard (31:11.65)
Dr. Nick (31:22.384)
Jay Lombard (31:23.029)
And I find one of the easiest ways of actually doing that is basically there's a device called heart math. I'm not sure if either of you are familiar with heart math, but certainly, your listeners may not be. So heart math was discovered by the cardiologist who discovered heart rate variability back in the 1970s.
Dr. Nicole (31:23.818)
And I find one of the easiest ways of actually doing that is basically, there's a device called HeartMap. I'm not sure if either of you know about HeartMap, but your listeners may not be. So HeartMap was discovered by a cardiologist who discovered heart rate variability back in the 1970s.
Dr. Nick (31:36.748)
Jay Lombard (31:52.165)
that if you could measure heart rate variability, you can actually be able to, through your own autonomic nervous system, control heart rate variability. And they created this very, very inexpensive device that comes in the mail, it's like only maybe $200, where they put a sensor in the earlobe to measure heart rate variability and having the ability going forward
Dr. Nicole (32:13.418)
sensor and earlobe to measure heart ability and having the ability to move forward to allow people to self-heal themselves and kind of regulate the autonomic nervous system by assessing heart ability. Now, I find this extremely useful even to myself because I couldn't say, just many things, but going through this mindfulness, I'm like, the more I go through mindfulness, the more anxiety I have.
Jay Lombard (32:19.817)
to allow people to self-teach themselves how to regulate their autonomic nervous system by assessing heart rate variability. Now I find this extremely useful even for myself because people say, oh, well you just meditate or go into this mindfulness. I'm like the more I try to go into mindfulness the more anxiety I have. It's like Be calm. Like what do you mean be calm? The world is totally going dark right now. How can I be calm?
Dr. Nicole (32:46.279)
It's where you totally go in that right now. So true. It's where you totally go in that right now.
Jay Lombard (32:49.433)
Right? And by the way, everybody, you know, it's funny just to bring that up because everyone feels that way right now. It's like we are living in such times of existential despair. And, you know, yeah.
Dr. Nicole (32:59.11)
such times of existential despair.
Dr. Nick (33:04.455)
I love it.
Dr. Nicole (33:08.35)
You're messed up.
Dr. Nick (33:09.09)
But I like you noticed I look at life completely different than most people because I'm like, look around, it's not working. It's got to break down, you know, breakdown socks, and never feels good. But it's like, that's how we grow. We, you don't grow without pain and we need, we need to grow into something that's going to serve us. Yeah.
Dr. Nicole (33:14.082)
Dr. Nicole (33:19.023)
you can break down.
Jay Lombard (33:25.353)
I know, and I agree that's inevitable, but you know, the process itself, you know, I am, you know, how do I say this, a person that believes that all, there's a silver lining to all negative things in the world, right, which is, I think, what you also believe.
But to get to that process has been so painful for so many people in the world today. I mean, right now, you know. So, yes, I'm a big believer that change is possible. I'm less of a fan that you need pain to get there. How's that? Next question.
Dr. Nicole (33:55.505)
But to get to that process, there's been so many people in the world right now. So yes, I'm a big believer that change is possible. I'm less of a fan, but you came to get there.
Dr. Nick (34:16.638)
Yeah, it's, it's not, it's not always fun that the process, but I mean, I think that, you know, there's, there's always two sides to every story. You know, there's the mental emotional stress because what we chatted about the self-depreciation, you know, understanding that flow of energy of, you know, the mental thought and how that creates that electromagnetic, um, effect that gets felt by the body experienced by the body. And then the body's reacting to it. Is that.
We need, if we didn't have that pain response, we would never make a change. So we wouldn't, there would be more chaos. There'd be more entropy, there'd be more disorder and we'd never have a feedback mechanism. Like you like the, the heart rate variability because it's constantly giving you feedback, you know, meditation. Unless you're getting that feedback from some type of biofeedback device. You don't really know. So it's nice. It's nice to be able to, to do that work, but also, you know, to have
technology and devices to say like, Hey, you know, you did a great, maybe you make this little slight change, et cetera. Um, but that way we don't have to stay in that cycle of pain, you know, continuing to do the same thing over and over, but, you know, get an insanity.
Dr. Nicole (35:21.127)
Jay Lombard (35:30.049)
Yep. But you're exactly right. You can have the best drug protocol using these amino acids, this dietary supplement, this drug, that drug, the perfect cocktail. But if you don't get the energetic, I'll call it bio-emotional because I think that's probably a better word than energetic because it has a negative connotation to professionals that like, oh, you're one of those people that believe in energy.
Dr. Nicole (35:33.286)
Exactly right. You can have the best drug protocol. These amino acids, this dietary supplement, this drug, that drug, the perfect cocktail. But if you don't get the energetic, I'll call it bio-emotional. I think that's probably a better word than energetic because it has a negative connotation to professionals. Like, oh, you're one of those people that believe in energy.
Jay Lombard (35:59.805)
So, but you're exactly right that that's the first layer of healing, 100 percent. Any other questions you have?
Dr. Nicole (36:00.186)
So, but you're exactly right. That's the first layer of human. 100%. I have a question. I just wanted to say that we label this energy so we can kind of understand it, but it's really just all mathematics. It's all probability.
Dr. Nick (36:09.07)
Quantum physicists say that there actually is an energy. We just call, we label it as energy so we can kind of understand it, but it's really just all mathematics. It's all probability, which is interesting.
Jay Lombard (36:21.553)
Right. So, yes, it's interesting that you say that because there were researchers that developed the first types of MRI scans that were based upon probability as opposed to deterministic areas. And that's something called fractional anisotropy or FA, which I think, Nick, you're probably familiar with given your background in math and quantum understanding. Fractional anisotropy can be measured on MRI scans, by the way.
Dr. Nicole (36:48.09)
measured on MRI scans, by the way, as a marker of the fluidity of water through myelin. So people with various diseases, whether schizophrenia, autism, Alzheimer's, ALS, do these fancy studies, which, you know, are done unfortunately right now on a research basis, but you often see that there's disruption in the flow of water in the brain.
Jay Lombard (36:50.825)
and it's a marker of the fluidity of water through myelin. So people with various diseases, whether schizophrenia, autism, Alzheimer's, ALS, when you do these fancy studies, which are done only, fortunately right now, only on a research basis, but you often see that there's disruption in the flow of water in the brain. So yes, it all comes down to not only quantum physics,
Dr. Nicole (37:16.962)
So yes, it all comes down to not only quantum physics but how do we harness our own single quantum physics in an applicable way clinically? I think that's always the gap in our understanding about how do we take these very well-established metaphors and make them work in science and medicine. That could really be a joke. I don't know.
Jay Lombard (37:20.121)
But how do we harness our understanding of quantum physics in an applicable way clinically? And I think that's always the gap in our understanding about how do we take these very, very well-established mathematical principles to make them work in science and medicine.
Dr. Nick (37:39.774)
You want to get really deep, Jay?
Jay Lombard (37:43.457)
I don't know. I'm seeing Nicole like taking a... I have to ask Nicole the question.
Dr. Nicole (37:47.686)
Oh my gosh. I want to bring this all together really quick for our audience. So you hold that thought, Mr. Carruthers.
Dr. Nick (37:55.202)
Dr. Nicole (37:57.466)
So we talked about a lot of different things. You know, we talked about viruses. We talked about the correlation of gut dysbiosis. We've talked about neuroinflammation that are all playing a role in different neurological conditions from ALS to autism, Asperger's, and bipolar, many things in between. So I think that the moral of the story here is that, one, there's a lot of possibilities, but two, it's all about data.
People need to have a better understanding. They need a team of experts to understand what is happening for you. And the other factor that I want to bring home.
Jay Lombard (38:37.794)
Let's talk about that. That's a very interesting point to bring up because I agree with you 100% because the problem right now with how we diagnose conditions like ALS, Alzheimer's, and Parkinson's are really, especially in the case of ALS, we use subjective rating scores, right? We use what's called the ALS functional rating score which is purely subjective. I mean, it's like, you can ask, well, how's your drooling today?
Okay, is it a one to a five? Unfortunately, that's been the standard of how we identify efficacy of these various interventions and drugs that have been approved by the FDA. My point is, to your point, is the single most important objective biomarker in patients with ALS, or other neuromuscular diseases for that matter, is assessing objectively respiratory function, because that is the primary
Dr. Nicole (39:05.721)
Jay Lombard (39:34.425)
reason that patients with these conditions die. So we need to pay much more attention to pulmonary function. And I think what, unfortunately, I think most neurologists don't understand that ALS is a systemic disease. It's not only a motor neuron disease, it affects bulbar and affects the diaphragm, and that's the leading cause of death. So if we want to talk about objective biomarkers, we need to talk about specific looking at pulmonary function tests.
Dr. Nicole (39:50.318)
Jay Lombard (40:03.489)
that look at not only carbon dioxide diffusion, but also nitric oxide diffusion. And unfortunately, most pulmonologists are not even aware that these studies exist, but these are the most important studies that we need to do. And I always, as a person that is not in research, I'm a clinical physician, I've always pushed the idea of N of 1 studies.
And end-of-one studies means that it's a recognized way of studying a patient without getting them a placebo. And it also is a validated marker for treatment, even on the basis of FDA allowance of those studies. In other words, there's many FDA-approved end-of-one studies, particularly for patients with rare diseases where...
There is no study, there is no drug, or there's only a placebo that they may get as opposed to enrolling in one of these types of studies.
Dr. Nicole (41:07.808)
I love that that's Q, isn't it? Screaming? Okay, that's our son.
Dr. Nick (41:11.154)
I was gonna like, I don't know if you guys can hear him, but he's yelling pretty loud. He was cheering, he agreed with you.
Dr. Nicole (41:14.963)
Dr. Nicole (41:18.626)
Jay Lombard (41:19.865)
Dr. Nick (41:22.454)
But it's interesting that.
Dr. Nicole (41:22.758)
And I know that one of the markers that you've shared with me, sorry, Nick, I just wanted to mention that you've also introduced me to a very specific neurodegenerative marker that's available even through LabCorp. And that's, I think, something that people need to know about because, again, there are a lot of doctors that are operating out of the subjective, and that subjective rating is... They're essentially leading with...
you're progressing, you're getting worse. And we don't really have like actual data to say if you are or you're not. And so again, that goes back to the mental-emotional component of just continually losing hope of, I'm just doomed based on this diagnosis.
Dr. Nick (42:11.598)
we, you were talking to most people don't think about it being connected with the respiratory, the pulmonary issue, but that, like you said, that's the major cause of death and on an, I'll just say the word energy aspect. Um, but on the aspect of, uh, polarity is that the, like a healthy cell, has a right spin, um, but when it loses enough energy, it will actually flip inversely and it will start the.
Electro aspect will start spinning to the left. When it does that, it doesn't have the ability to uptake and hold onto oxygen. So then you have that decreased capability for oxygen and then, but you take that up kind of the level and it's like, well, what decreases the energy? Well, the capacity to say it, to appreciate yourself, to love yourself. So if you get to that.
mental emotional state of self-depreciation, where you hit that action potential, that you actually change the polarity, the electrical spin of that cell. Well, that's a main factor that decreases its inability to uptake oxygen.
Jay Lombard (43:20.985)
Dr. Nick (43:30.338)
So then you do like red light therapy, which is simple that bio and you're increasing, I mean, it's outside of you, but you're allowing the client to be able to have enough energy and we know that our environment, you know, and energy is bi-directional so we can give them energy from the external component to be like, okay, maybe I do have some hope. Maybe I can start appreciating myself.
Jay Lombard (43:53.497)
And that's one of my exercises that I give my patients, which I should, you know, I'm like the doctor with the shoes, uh, the shoemaker with holes in my shoes, but I, but, uh, what I recommend to patients, which I probably should do for myself, uh, is to do a 10 minute, uh, sort of AM gratitude, uh, where they walk out, uh, look at the sun, but cover,
their eyes because you don't want the direct sunlight. So I tell people to go out and, you know, look at the light with your eyes covered for about 10 minutes. And just try to put yourself in a mental state of gratitude because gratitude heals everything. It really does. And it's something that, I've had to learn for myself for a couple of reasons. One, I'm a grateful deadhead. So, you know, right away, you know, people that,
Dr. Nicole (44:33.114)
mental state of gratitude because gratitude heals everything. It really does. It's something that I've had to learn from myself.
Dr. Nicole (44:46.846)
that people that follow the Greats of Dead know that the first word in that name, the Greats of, is attractive to both deadheads and to that music, even though different generations can't stand that music. Hey, I'm down.
Jay Lombard (44:48.601)
to follow the Grateful Dead, you know, know that the first word in that name is grateful, you know, that's what attracted people like us old deadheads to that music, even though like many people of different generations can't stand their music, like Nicole maybe, I'm not sure. Okay, good. But there, where am I going on this? Oh, just as a simple exercise that people need to do.
to self-affirm because I find, you know, I say to myself, you know, I really should love myself, you know, or that God loves me. Like, you know, people say, oh, God loves you. I'm like, how are you so sure about that? Like, I don't know, you know, I don't, I'm not taking it on face value that God loves me. You got to, you got to earn his love. You can't just say God loves me, you know? So I'm not sure where I'm at with God, you know, but if...
Dr. Nicole (45:23.07)
I really love my class. I feel that God loves me. I feel God loves me. I'm not really so sure about that. I don't know, you know, I'm not sitting with one and pay value that God loves me. You gotta earn your stuff. You can't just say God loves me. So I'm not sure where I'm at with God.
Dr. Nicole (45:45.674)
I'm not sure.
Jay Lombard (45:49.133)
That's right, that's right. It's like two thousand. Oh, the best Christmas we should... What was the... Oh my God. The best movie for everyone to watch was with the guy who loses his business. These mean guys take over his bank. And... No, this is way before Eddie Murphy.
Dr. Nicole (45:51.048)
We've been watching a lot of Christmas movies in this house.
Dr. Nicole (45:56.326)
Oh my gosh, that's hilarious.
Dr. Nick (46:13.267)
Oh, back with Eddie Murphy back in the day? No.
Dr. Nicole (46:17.456)
Wait, are you kidding?
Jay Lombard (46:18.593)
No, this is a black-and-white film. Oh, God. I may need to take some of my own suggestions about my MCI, Myel Kong's improvement. But anyway, what else do you guys want to ask? I know that your time is running up and we could talk for hours. And in fact, you know,
Dr. Nicole (46:21.535)
Oh, I don't know.
Dr. Nick (46:28.738)
Ha ha ha.
Dr. Nicole (46:34.566)
Thanks for watching!
I know, I know. I wanna, so we've been on for a while and I don't want anybody's head to explode, but I wanna kind of wrap this up and bring it all together for the listener because I think that, you know, with talking about all these different things, again, going back to what I said before, it's all a matter of understanding that everybody's blueprint is so different. So yes, you might have neurodegenerative symptoms and.
One, don't identify with a diagnosis as your end all be all, because there's a lot of other factors that have contributed to the symptomatology. And if you can understand what those are, you can actually do something about it. And what I love about, you know, you've been in practice for a very long time, you've worked with a lot of different people, and you're one of the smartest people that I know. And, you know, you're, you're coming back and saying that
Yes, there are different treatments that we can do. Yes, there are things from red light therapy to different types of possible medications or natural remedies, et cetera, food. But this also comes back to your mind and it comes back to do you have gratitude for anything in your life? And
are you a victim to the symptoms and the diagnosis? And if we don't get that piece right, or we just don't address it at all, we're gonna continue to see chronic illness as a whole, not necessarily just neurodegenerative disease. And it's just a factor that really needs to be talked about more. And I find that more of the practitioners that we have been gravitating towards and talking to,
Dr. Nicole (48:24.922)
that have been doing this a long time, we realize that we've pulled all the fancy stuff out. We pulled all the fancy protocols and supplements and therapies and all of it. And we realized that if someone is just in such a poor state mentally and emotionally, it is really, really hard for them to heal.
Jay Lombard (48:46.461)
I know. That's so, so true. That's why I love the work that you guys do. I really do. I mean, I am, you know, equally grateful to the work that you do and for the opportunity to talk to you today. And I think that we should continue these conversations over maybe a cold beer, you know, over the holidays or something. I think we have a great time.
Dr. Nicole (49:07.838)
Yes! I would love that.
Our audience is like, they drink beer? Oh my gosh.
So where can people find you?
Jay Lombard (49:20.409)
By the way, I do go to Dunkin' Donuts, by the way. And if we have a little talk, I'll tell you.
Dr. Nicole (49:26.018)
judging you. The audience doesn't even need to judge you. I'm judging you.
Jay Lombard (49:29.597)
Dr. Nick (49:30.615)
I was like, you say that and I was like, uh oh, she's gonna tear you apart.
Jay Lombard (49:32.285)
Let him who has no sin throw the first stone at you, okay?
Dr. Nicole (49:36.598)
Hey, we were just in Italy and then, you know, I come back here and I'm like, even this fancy coffee that I buy has got nothing on the Italian coffee.
Dr. Nicole (49:47.066)
So where can people find you? Because I am sure people are going to be very interested in more of your work. I know you've done some big speaking engagements. So tell us where, and we will obviously hyperlink everything below and people will be able to find you easily.
Jay Lombard (49:47.182)
Jay Lombard (50:03.445)
Okay, so my website is www.
Jay Lombard (50:12.546)
dot dr j Lombard I think it's that w dr j Lombard dot com I think that's my
Dr. Nicole (50:19.302)
I think that's right. You're right.
Dr. Nick (50:20.526)
We're too much alike. If somebody asked me, I'd be like, I don't know. Like, talk to my marketing person. That's why I have one. Ha ha ha.
Jay Lombard (50:26.625)
Yes, exactly. I think my website www.doctorjlombard.com. And there's a little, you know, people, it's funny, when they look at my website, they go, who designed this? It's terrible. And I go, I designed it. So the first thing is going to be like a beautiful waterfall. I'm really into waterfalls. In fact, I'm, my hobby was Japanese gardens, you know when I was able to afford Japanese gardens. So
Dr. Nicole (50:51.64)
Jay Lombard (50:55.009)
I have this waterfall picture. My phone number should be on the first page. I haven't checked it recently. And then there's a couple of my podcasts I did. And some of my research is posted on that website. And looking forward to whoever feels that wants to be connected to me. It's funny, all the people I end up seeing over time.
Dr. Nicole (50:59.506)
on the first page. I can check it recently. And then there's a couple of my podcasts I did.
Some of my research is posted on that website. And looking forward to whoever feels that wants to be connected to me. All the people I end up seeing over time are people who understand this mind-body relationship intrinsically. But people who don't understand it, like, this guy is out to lunch somewhere. Which is probably like,
Jay Lombard (51:22.241)
are people who understand this mind-body relationship intrinsically. Because people who don't understand it, like, you know, just, you know, this guy is like, you know, out to lunch somewhere, which, which by the way, my family thinks I am. So those people who think that they're in good company. Okay.
Dr. Nicole (51:35.886)
my family since I am.
Dr. Nicole (51:42.286)
Hey, us crazies gotta stick together, so we're good. We'll build our own little community.
Jay Lombard (51:51.254)
Good. Exactly. Alright.
Dr. Nicole (51:52.419)
Well, we thank you so much for being here. This was absolutely phenomenal. So for all of you listening, check him out, put your comments below. We want to hear from you.
Dr. Nick (52:03.042)
Great meeting you, Jay.